Forum Activity for @pristine2

pristine2
@pristine2
02/07/12 12:29:37PM
33 posts



Interesting instrument ... and early.

The headstock and tail are entirely different than the design he employed faithfully for at least 30 years.

There's no zero fret, placing it in the early 1970s and any time earlier. The low serial number may or may not imply something from his initial work in the late 1950s. I know he had more than one number series.

Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
02/06/12 10:05:34PM
1,564 posts



Wow, Kevin, how cool!

pristine2
@pristine2
01/10/12 10:05:13PM
33 posts



Fortunately, the frets with pitch errors all lean flat! I do the same on my Jeffreys player, built in 1991, which I treasure. I keep another here in Hong Kong that he built in 1962, but I rarely play it.

Ben Seymour recently installed an entirely new fretboard pattern on a Jeffreys for me. It is still in the US so I have not played it yet. You can hear it (barely) here:

robert schuler
@robert-schuler
01/10/12 08:25:58PM
258 posts



I learned to compensate for the intonation problem. Without thinking about it I just bend the strings where needed. I don't know or care much about its resale value. But the aged spruce top is priceless to me... Bob.

pristine2
@pristine2
01/10/12 03:19:52PM
33 posts



At the height of the market a few years back, I saw a Jeffreys sell for $400 on eBay. It wasn't in particularly good shape. But even very nice ones typically only fetch $100 -$150, as most buyers assume that the intonation is not in equal temperament (and that's true at least for the six or seven that I have played).

I find that the intonation on the older instruments -- those without a zero fret -- is a bit better. Many of these are entirely solid wood, too, where most of the later ones are all ply except for the top and the fretboard. Yours may be one of these.

Strumelia
@strumelia
12/28/11 01:20:31PM
2,416 posts



The Jeffreys I test drove a few months ago was a lovely thing- normal scale length but quite shallow, lightweight, and smallish box compared to what we usually see being made today (so many boomy 'dreadnought dulcimers' these days...lol!). The main reason I didn't buy it was that the fretboard was only 1/2" high and that made it very awkward to play with a noter. There was not sufficient room for my hand or knuckles while sliding up and down, didn't seem to matter how I held the noter. This was an odd feature for a diatonic dulcimer which naturally favors traditional playing styles. It wouldn't be an issue if someone only played by fretting with the fingers on the melody string (fingerdancing). At the time I wondered if all his fretboards were low like that, and it also made me wonder if he himself had any experience in playing with a noter.

pristine2
@pristine2
12/28/11 12:46:44PM
33 posts



He was really a tireless campaigner for the dulcimer, and apparently a guy with a lot of dignity and charm. I only wish he had recognised the errors in his fret pattern. Had he done so, his instruments would be worth many times what they are.

The same is true for a number of seminal builders of the period, though.

Ben Seymour just refretted a four-string Jefffreys for me. It sounds lovely. Even with the original fretwork, though, the sweet, plaintive sound of his dulcimers is absolutely authentic and very difficult to find now.

Richard

robert schuler
@robert-schuler
12/28/11 11:03:49AM
258 posts



Richard. I have a letter from Mr Jeffreys from 12/72 that said that his 4 string dulcimers at $70 were all walnut and his 3 string dulcimers $65 were all cherry. He said that he was out of cherry lunber at the time so only 4 string walnut models were avaliable. He said in his letter that he builds reproductions of ancient musical instruments as a hobby. and I quote.... "The dulcimer I make on order, partly because I believe such a beautiful and useful instrument should be better known".... He enclosed a photo of his dulcimer and requested I mail it back so he could pass it on... Them were the days... Bob.

pristine2
@pristine2
12/27/11 06:01:49PM
33 posts



Interesting ... I was wondering when he had started using a zero fret. This narrows it down.

Four-string Jeffreys are pretty uncommon. Nice instrument!

Best,

Richard


updated by @pristine2: 06/16/15 06:37:20AM
robert schuler
@robert-schuler
12/27/11 05:06:25PM
258 posts



Here are some pics of my AW Jeffrey dulcimer I bought back in 1972. Included is the supplied carry bag and a very useful instruction manual written by Mr Jeffery's... Bob.

Ben Barr Jr
@benjamin-w-barr-jr
12/26/11 09:56:48PM
65 posts



The years that I've owned this particular dulcimer (about 20 years now), I have been asked if it was homemade and if I had made it. So, I suspect that it could have been one that someone did make in their wood shop or garage. Isupposethat I will never know that. But, regardless, it is the search for the identity of the maker of the instrument based on the booklet which led me to this wonderful site of mountain dulcimeraficionados.

Ben Barr Jr
@benjamin-w-barr-jr
12/26/11 09:43:41PM
65 posts



Pristine2, Thanks for you comments. I suspect that you are probably right. As I had stated earlier, there is nothing to indicate who the maker of the instrument was. All that I did have was the booklet by Jeffreys, which is still in my possession. All I know of the history was that the man I bought it from at the flea market in Houlton had paid $20 and was looking for $30, to which I turned away only because I knew nothing of the dulcimer (hadn't heard or seen one at that point in time) and I didn't have a musical background, so $30 really didn't have much appeal to me. However, as I turned to go away, he asked if I had $25 for it and (coincidentally that was what I had in my pocket) I thought for a minute that what would I be risking...if I didn't like it I could probably get my investment back, so I paid the man and thus far have purchased 7 more paying a few dollars more than my original investment.

So, anyway, I learned to play and enjoy the instrument and the rest is my story...which I am sticking to....

pristine2
@pristine2
12/26/11 09:28:49PM
33 posts



Hi and thanks for the photo!

It's a lovely instrument - I especially like that whimsical, narrow strum hollow. Very little to remind me of Jeffreys, though. The instrument appears almost certainly to be the work of another builder.

The shape, the soundholes, the wide fretboard and the geared tuners (assuming they are original) have nothing in common with Jeffrey's typical work, which barely changed from 1960 until his last instruments in 1991.

Earlier Jeffreys instruments would not have thin gauge fretwire like this one. And without info to the contrary, I'd guess that this instrument was made in the 1970s or later.

Jeffrey's book was available independently of his instruments and its presence with the dulcimer is not indicative of the builder. It's always possible that he was experimenting, but unless you have some other reason to suspect it was made by Jeffreys, it almost certainly was not.

Sure looks like a fun instrument, though! Would love to hear it played.

Ben Barr Jr
@benjamin-w-barr-jr
12/26/11 08:30:31PM
65 posts



This is the dulcimer that may be a Jeffrey's model.

robert schuler
@robert-schuler
11/29/11 11:57:25AM
258 posts



I have number 1865. It was my first dulcimer. I bought it back in 1972. I still play it and its still in mint condition. I would never think of selling it. What a wonderful tone it has. The top is spruce, sides and back are walnut plywood. Fretboard is 3/4" high and easily played with noter. I still have the original noter that came with the instrument, a skimpy 1/4" walnut dowel stick. It came with a really nice pick made out of something resembling a thin strip of electronic circuit board material that made Galax style tunes sound real good. 27" scale and rosewood pegs, intonation is a bit off for finger style but I learned to compensate for that. Bob.

Strumelia
@strumelia
10/19/11 11:36:47PM
2,416 posts



There is an A.W. Jeffreys dulcimer for sale right near me, for $175 (without shipping). It's in pretty nice condition- original pegs, diatonic. All walnut with I think a poplar top. I went to look at it. It's nice, but the fretboard is 1/2" high- not high enough for me to play comfortably with my noter. It's a light and graceful thing, I think made in the early 70's. Within 45 min driving distance of Albany NY.
Ben Barr Jr
@benjamin-w-barr-jr
10/19/11 10:23:42PM
65 posts



Thanks for the reply. As I said, there is nothing to indicate the maker of the instrument. I will get my camera out in a couple of days and post a few pictures of this particular dulcimer. That may help to identify it. I also had a case made specifically for this one. I will post more later.

Ben

pristine2
@pristine2
10/19/11 10:13:22PM
33 posts



I've seen a couple Jeffreys dulcimers without labels, and one (from 1961) where he signed the instrument in pencil on the inside back panel. It's possible that the adhesive on the label in your instrument simply failed and it fell out, but you might take a good look inside with a flashlight.

If it is shaped like a Jeffreys, I doubt it is a copy. I have wondered, though, whether Jeffreys may have also sold kits, like many makers did -- I know he advertised in craft magazines, but I've never seen one of the ads and don't know whether kits were an option.

Not long after my initial post to this thread my computer died, rendering a lot of data unavailable (it was backed up, but the encryption key doesn't work). Unfortunately the address and telephone of Jeffrey's son in Virginia is in that data.It seems to be irretrievable, but the man's name is Jeffreys and I remember he is still living near Staunton. Your post inspires me to track him down.

By the way, Ben Seymour is doing a complete re-fret of a Jeffreys for me. Imagine those sweet plaintive tones of the Jeffreys intoning in equal temperament! Yum.

Richard

Benjamin W Barr Jr said:

I believe that I may have an early model of an A W Jeffreys, Jr. dulcimer. When I purchased it in Houlton, Maine a number of years ago, it came with the booklet that has been mentioned earlier. It is the revised version (1964) that I have. However, the dulcimer is not signed, so it is possible that someone could have made a copy of one of Jeffrey's dulcimers. The description is similar. The action was high, but I had it lowered.

Anyway, I wanted to comment on this thread...after all, it was a search for information on Jeffreys that has led me to this site and I think it is going to be a good place to hang out.

Ben Barr Jr
@benjamin-w-barr-jr
10/19/11 09:26:24PM
65 posts



I believe that I may have an early model of an A W Jeffreys, Jr. dulcimer. When I purchased it in Houlton, Maine a number of years ago, it came with the booklet that has been mentioned earlier. It is the revised version (1964) that I have. However, the dulcimer is not signed, so it is possible that someone could have made a copy of one of Jeffrey's dulcimers. The description is similar. The action was high, but I had it lowered.

Anyway, I wanted to comment on this thread...after all, it was a search for information on Jeffreys that has led me to this site and I think it is going to be a good place to hang out.

pristine2
@pristine2
12/17/09 09:01:35PM
33 posts



The way my AW Jeffreys sings is the benchmark I use for what a traditional dulcimer should sound like. There's something about that sweet, plaintive cry that I find incredibly seductive.The instrument doesn't intonate well, but it doesn't matter much when I stick to the melody string.I've been researching AW Jeffreys. He was a very significant person in the history of our instrument. I've spoken to his son and hope to arrange a longer interview soon. One of these days I'll wriote a proper article about him.Richard
Stephanie Stuckwisch
@stephanie-stuckwisch
12/13/09 08:03:04PM
45 posts



Those old builders knew what they were doing. My old dulcimer looks awfully slender next to my new ones, kinda like Twiggy vs Reubens, but her voice is sweet.Hope you enjoy you "new" one.Stephanie
Rod Westerfield
@rod-westerfield
11/28/09 07:39:32PM
109 posts



looks good CD... your getting a connection in KC worked out ok...look forward to hearing and seeing it sometime.. I was also going to say that it looked like walnut... enjoy... a very traditional dulcimer...
Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
11/23/09 09:07:06PM
1,564 posts



You're right, CD, it wasn't long ago that a Jeffreys fetched a pretty penny on eBay. I look forward to learning how the story turns out!
Rod Westerfield
@rod-westerfield
11/23/09 08:25:16PM
109 posts



ok... hmmm picked one up accidentally... what it jump on your bus.... :) :) :) or maybe was laying in the road.. tell us the story CD..
B. Ross Ashley
@b-ross-ashley
11/17/09 12:56:03AM
59 posts

Finding ball-end strings


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thanks for the reassurance! I've never played guitar or banjo so I never had this problem before ... do guitar strings get as fine as .010? My Folkcraft is 20 years old, the VSL is 27 3/4". Bucko Futreal said:
Any of the ball-ends, regardless of their marketing, should do fine -- at least that's what my experience suggests. I purchase individual guitar strings for all my dulcimers -- any decent music store that sells guitars will have lots of 'em on hand. You can also order 'em: http://www.juststrings.com/singlestrings.html
For instance, for my dulcimer in GDD tuning, I do .22 for the bass string and .12 for the other strings. On DAD dulcimers, I do .24, .18, and .12. Those are both Folkcrafts, by the way, so probably the same neck length as yours.
Bucko Futreal
@bucko-futreal
11/17/09 12:35:34AM
8 posts

Finding ball-end strings


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Any of the ball-ends, regardless of their marketing, should do fine -- at least that's what my experience suggests. I purchase individual guitar strings for all my dulcimers -- any decent music store that sells guitars will have lots of 'em on hand. You can also order 'em: http://www.juststrings.com/singlestrings.html For instance, for my dulcimer in GDD tuning, I do .22 for the bass string and .12 for the other strings. On DAD dulcimers, I do .24, .18, and .12. Those are both Folkcrafts, by the way, so probably the same neck length as yours.
B. Ross Ashley
@b-ross-ashley
11/16/09 11:42:07PM
59 posts

Finding ball-end strings


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

My Folkcraft came to me wearing a set of ball-end strings. I've replaced them once, with a new set, but the set I was able to find was the standard D'Addario set of loop-ends. Every set I have seen in the store or online is loop-end, but my MD was obviously built for ballends, with pins to fit through the holes in the balls. Loops work, but I think I'd get more consistent tension with ball-ends. Should I invest in four individual ball-end banjo or guitar strings?
updated by @b-ross-ashley: 06/08/16 09:24:05PM
B. Ross Ashley
@b-ross-ashley
11/15/09 08:03:17PM
59 posts



They are both in the same key and tuning, I strum them in D Ionian, DAA, the tonic for both tunes is D ... one verse of Water followed by one verse of Shenandoah. Try it, it works! Bill Davenport said:
Interesting concept of Water is Wide whith Shenendoah. I'd love to hear that.
Bill

B. Ross Ashley said:
I guess I don't do genre Old Time either. I like stuff like Stephen Foster's "Hard Times", the traditional "Old Joe Clark", and others of that ilk, but I'm not enamored of the okeh Records style, no. I do Red River Valley in Pete Seeger's style, mainly because I love the alternate words he put to it back in the late 30s, There's a Valley in Spain Called Jarama. I do Git Along Little Dogies/Streets of Laredo, and The Water is Wide crossed with Shenandoah, 'cause I like them. ;)
B. Ross Ashley
@b-ross-ashley
11/15/09 12:10:53PM
59 posts



I guess I don't do genre Old Time either. I like stuff like Stephen Foster's "Hard Times", the traditional "Old Joe Clark", and others of that ilk, but I'm not enamored of the okeh Records style, no. I do Red River Valley in Pete Seeger's style, mainly because I love the alternate words he put to it back in the late 30s, There's a Valley in Spain Called Jarama. I do Git Along Little Dogies/Streets of Laredo, and The Water is Wide crossed with Shenandoah, 'cause I like them. ;)
TERI WEST
@teri-west
11/10/09 12:01:19AM
25 posts



Here's a fewAngelina BakerHard TimesMes parentes (with a cajun swing)Cumberland Mtn.Deer ChaseForked deerbarlow knifebritches full of stitchesgoin to bostonfly away pretty little missold joe clarkglendy burkand a zillion others..........
Strumelia
@strumelia
11/09/09 10:16:48PM
2,416 posts



Yes, I think we may be saying the same thing just in two different ways. ;)
folkfan
@folkfan
11/09/09 09:33:38PM
357 posts



I didn't mean to say that other types or sounds of music that use the core of tunes and ballads that are at the heart of "Old Time Music" are themselves "Old Time Music". As you point out Bluegrass is based on in part on the music core of "Old Time" , but doesn't have the same sound as "Old Time"I was simply trying to say that "Old Time" music has had a basic core of songs to develop on and through the years has developed a special sound that is "Old Time" music. In effect it is it's own genre now. But the tunes and music that are at the core of "Old Time" aren't just played or sung by "Old Time musicians", they have a more general audience.Here's how I'd want my Barbara Allen to sound, only not in a man's voice. This has the tonal quality that I would try to achieve if I could. I melt when I hear this, but I've always have love the rolling tones of someone like Mario Lanza, or Nelson Eddy. Yummy voices
The New Christy Minstrels do a marvelous version of Barbara Allen too, but I wouldn't call it "Old Time Music" when they sing it. It doesn't have the sounds or tones, and rhythms that I've come to associate with "Old Time Music"
It just isn't the same as the young girl's singing of it in "Songcatcher".Strumelia said:I have a different view on it. After all, a good chunk of Bluegrass music is from old-time songs, tunes, and ballads but played in a more modern bluegrass style. I don't think of it as 'old-time' music then- it's then bluegrass music, derived from old-time music sources. If someone played Shady Grove in Latin salsa style, it wouldn't be old-time music. And it wouldn't be bluegrass then either.Thus, I think of old-time music as being both the material (due to its age and other very distinctive characteristics) and the style in which it is played. It certainly can be a shadowy defining line between things sometimes though. Sometimes things are hybrids of two styles or two sources, etc.
Strumelia
@strumelia
11/09/09 06:49:51PM
2,416 posts



folkfan said:
Carson, I'm going to say that "Old Time Music" is definitely more that just a core of basic tunes and songs. It is by this time developed into a genre of music with it's own sound coming from a basic cultural core but spiced with a variety of other cultures musical ingredients.

You can play the core of music without the sound that is now associated with "Old Time Music"
I have a different view on it. After all, a good chunk of Bluegrass music is from old-time songs, tunes, and ballads but played in a more modern bluegrass style. I don't think of it as 'old-time' music then- it's then bluegrass music, derived from old-time music sources. If someone played Shady Grove in Latin salsa style, it wouldn't be old-time music. And it wouldn't be bluegrass then either.Thus, I think of old-time music as being both the material (due to its age and other very distinctive characteristics) and the style in which it is played. It certainly can be a shadowy defining line between things sometimes though. Sometimes things are hybrids of two styles or two sources, etc.
folkfan
@folkfan
11/09/09 06:15:20PM
357 posts



Carson, I'm going to say that "Old Time Music" is definitely more that just a core of basic tunes and songs. It is by this time developed into a genre of music with it's own sound coming from a basic cultural core but spiced with a variety of other cultures musical ingredients.You can play the core of music without the sound that is now associated with "Old Time Music"Pretty Saro is an old song. Here's Iris DeMent doing it in what I think of as an "Old Time Music" sound
And this is more the way I do it. It has more of a lilt Which doesn't mean that it's better, but just a different style to the same song.
Carson Turner said:
I'm a huge fan of Shady Grove and several style permutations of that tune. It just speaks to me for some reason.

The question I'd toss back is whether Old Time music is a core collection of songs from a period as opposed to a style of rendering tunes of any period? I play Old Time (as well as several variations) and tend to think it's more a performing aesthetic than a particular list of tunes.

Just my thought though. A friend and I do a pretty good If You Seek Amy in Old Time style that gets more than a few raised eyebrows. I'm betting that many of what we call bluegrass tunes can be traced back to pre-bluegrass and into Old Time -- and possibly further back into vernacular folk styles.
folkfan
@folkfan
11/06/09 12:46:17PM
357 posts



No disagreement here on the various influences other cultures other than English, Irish, and Scottish have had on "Old Time Music". Lomax's book on the Folk Songs of North America gives a nice maps showing the areas of influence you mentioned.My comment was made merely to clarify why I have to qualify that I sing old songs but not Old Time music. Since I listen mostly to Irish, and Scottish singers, I come more from a background of the Irish sessions, rather than from jams on pickin' porches in the hollers of the Appalachian Mountain. Though my father was the first one in his family born outside of WV since the families settled in the area before the Revolution, his music was Glenn Miller, and Benny Goodman. etc.Most of the tunes and songs from the Smith/MacNeil book are related to the Child ballads , but they give the American version of the tune as it was sung at various spots along the Wilderness Road. It's an interesting book, especially if someone is interested in learning a bit of history about the songs as well as the development of the country in the early days of settlement.And I get caught on the Scottish Skip quite a bit, at least that's what I call that "hop" the rhythm can sometimes take. Strumelia said:
Interesting reminder, Folkfan!
Let's keep in mind that early American music was influenced by various other ethnicities and cultures besides English, Irish, and Scottish. In old-time music one can hear the definite influence of African rhythm in particular, and there were also influences of the French, Native Americans, Scandinavian, Spanish, German, etc etc.... But the African influence is clearly there, with rhythm (especially as contributed with clawhammer/gourd banjo and tambourine/bones), also as early blues scales (applied to both the instrumental music and singing).I do know that as an 'american old-time' musician, I have a terrible time trying to play along in Irish sessions. Even if the tune is one I already play in old-time style...the rhythm is so different, I mostly fail! The rhythm difference really trips me up- to me it's almost like trying to write on a paper while looking at it in the mirror. =8-o
Randy Adams
@randy-adams
11/05/09 10:37:30PM
125 posts



Here's some links to tunes I've been listening to lately....tryin to steal a few licks... : )....Black Mt Rag
White Creek http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YSQzF8WmI8 Three Thin Dimes
White Freight Liner
Sweet Mt Corn
Big Ball in Monterey http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zpu7rL06Qo Lilly Dale
Wild Bill Jones http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyy4PY6-j9s Few Days
Trouble
Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
11/05/09 08:45:08PM
1,564 posts



I like lots of tunes/songs. Here are some:RoustaboutGathering FlowersLittle BirdieChased Old SatanRed WingRed Rocking ChairArkansas TravelerHunting the BuffaloShady GroveWhiskey Before Breakfast
Strumelia
@strumelia
11/05/09 07:56:25PM
2,416 posts



My favorite top ten old-tune music TUNES?- you mean instrumental as opposed to songs or ballads?Hmm....favorite old-time tunes that I like to play...Here are a few in no particular order:Brushy Fork of Johnson's CreekHell up Coal HollerCold Frosty MorningTexasLady of the LakeLet's Hunt the HorsesJeff SturgeonOld Jimmy SuttonJack WilsonYew Piney mountainCallahanChinqapin HuntingI just realized that almost all the above are minor/modal tunes. =8-oIf you mean ballads/songs, that's a whole different list.
Strumelia
@strumelia
11/05/09 07:23:14PM
2,416 posts



Interesting reminder, Folkfan!Let's keep in mind that early American music was influenced by various other ethnicities and cultures besides English, Irish, and Scottish.In old-time music one can hear the definite influence of African rhythm in particular, and there were also influences of the French, Native Americans, Scandinavian, Spanish, German, etc etc....But the African influence is clearly there, with rhythm (especially as contributed with clawhammer/gourd banjo and tambourine/bones), also as early blues scales (applied to both the instrumental music and singing).I do know that as an 'american old-time' musician, I have a terrible time trying to play along in Irish sessions. Even if the tune is one I already play in old-time style...the rhythm is so different, I mostly fail! The rhythm difference really trips me up- to me it's almost like trying to write on a paper while looking at it in the mirror. =8-o
folkfan
@folkfan
11/05/09 06:44:45PM
357 posts



I was just going through Songs and Tunes of the Wilderness Road by Smith and MacNeil which might have a clue as to why I say I sing old songs, but not old time songs. One paragraph gives a description of the difference between old Appalachian music and the music of Great Britain. It says "five tone and six-tone folk tunes are rare among the tunes that have been field collected in Great Britain. Somewhere between Great Britain and the Cumberland Ford, these tunes became, you could perhaps say, more primitive, without declining the least bit in beauty or power--perhaps , in some instances, even gaining."English and American folk songs tend to be in one of the 4 common modal scales, but old Appalachian tunes tend to use what are called "gapped scales" such as the hexatonic scale that leaves out 1 note, and even more tunes leave out 2 notes and are pentatonic.I came to folk music and ballads from listening to English, Irish, and Scottish singers mostly, not American. Many of the books that I tab from are published in the British Isles. No wonder my music is slightly different in singing style.
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